Content Warnings That Actually Resist Harm with Rachel Edwards

Content warnings have long been treated as mere disclaimers—brief nods to potential triggers without much thought to their real impact. 

But what if they could do more? Rachel Edwards believes they can. 

As a senior content designer at Content Design London and the creator of the book Designed with Care: Creating Trauma-Informed Content, Rachel brings together voices from health, government, and nonprofit sectors to explore how words can support those experiencing trauma. Her book is a groundbreaking resource for anyone looking to communicate with empathy and intention.

In our conversation, Rachel unpacks the limitations of traditional content warnings and explains how to transform them into tools of empowerment and choice. We also explore the inspiration behind Designed with Care and the collaborative effort that brought its pages to life. 

With practical insights on trauma-informed design, Rachel shares how simple shifts in language can make information more accessible and less retraumatizing. Join us as we dig into the principles of trauma-informed design and discover how content warnings can move beyond disclaimers to become instruments of real safety and empowerment.

About Rachel Edwards

From dabbling in food writing to working as a librarian, Rachel has spent the best part of 2 decades working with words. As a content designer she has worked extensively with parliament, and government, helping people understand their rights. Her interest is how to create better content for people experiencing stress, anxiety and trauma. Originally from Canada, Rachel now lives in Scotland with her 2 children.

Connect with Rachel Edwards

Designed With Care | Linkedin | Get the Book

About Host Maria Bryan

Maria Bryan is a trauma-informed storytelling trainer. She helps nonprofit leaders tell powerful and impactful stories that resist harm. Maria has over fifteen years in marketing communications in the public sector. She has a Master’s Degree in Public Administration, a Bachelor’s Degree in Journalism, and is professionally certified in Trauma & Resilience, Trauma-Informed Space Holding, Trauma-Informed Coaching, and Somatic Embodiment & Regulation. Maria is a firm believer that storytellers make the world a healthier, safer, cleaner, and happier place.

Connect with Maria

Speaking & Training | LinkedIn | Email

Transcript

Maria Bryan:
Welcome to the When Bearing Witness podcast. This podcast is an invitation to explore trauma-informed storytelling, a safe and healthy process of gathering and telling painful stories. It's hosted by me, Maria Bryan, a career storyteller. I have long believed that storytellers play a crucial role in making the world a better place.

For a brief moment, I was introduced to the concept of trauma-informed storytelling, and it changed my life. Join my conversations with trauma-informed experts and social good storytellers as we help shape the intersection of trauma-informed care and the storytelling process. Stories are sacred, and we can create safe spaces to tell and share them.

Today I am joined by Rachel Edwards, senior content designer at Content Design London, who recently published the book Designed With Care: Creating Trauma-Informed Content. I know this is audio, but I'm holding it in my hands right now—I had to get it as soon as it came out. Just so thrilled that this is out in the universe.

With nearly two decades of experience working with words—from food writing to government content—Rachel specializes in designing information that supports people experiencing stress, anxiety, and trauma. We'll be diving into what it means to create trauma-informed content and why this is so important.

Rachel, I have been following your work for so long. It's such a joy to finally meet you. Welcome to When Bearing Witness.

Rachel Edwards:
Oh, thank you so much. I'm so pleased to be here. I love that we're on opposite sides of the world, but we can connect this way.

Maria Bryan:
We are, we are—so, Rachel's joining us from Scotland, by way of Canada.

Rachel Edwards:
Yes. I grew up in Canada and have been in Scotland for years now. My accent’s not quite right in either place.

Maria Bryan:
I'd love to know more about your journey in content development. Content means different things to different people, so maybe tell us a little bit about what you do and your journey.

Rachel Edwards:
Absolutely. Content design is one of those roles where people often go, "Oh, interesting," and then look confused. The short answer I give to taxi drivers and hairdressers is, "I design the words for websites." But really, it's more than that.

What I like to think of it as is giving people information they can use, understand, and act on. Usually, it's websites, but it can also be letters, books, or video scripts. The principles are the same.

I got into this field in a roundabout way. I studied Shakespeare at university, which didn’t directly lead to content design, but it did nurture my love of words. I spent most of my career before content design working at the Scottish Parliament, in various roles—school visits, internal comms, legislation, and working with parliamentary committees.

The common thread through all those jobs was my love of explaining things to people, making complex concepts about parliament and government understandable, and involving people in the process.

Maria Bryan:
I would love to know more about your journey and content development. And content means different things to different people. So maybe tell us a little bit about what you do and your journey.

Rachel Edwards:
Absolutely. So, content design is one of those roles where, when you say it to people, they go, "Oh, interesting," and then they look confused. The short answer—the one I give to taxi drivers and hairdressers—is, "I design the words for websites." But it's really more than that. I like to think of it as giving people information that they can use, understand, and act on. Usually, it's websites, but it's other things too. It can be letters, books, or video scripts. The principles are all the same.

I got into this field in a very roundabout way. As you said, I've spent almost 20 years playing with words. I studied Shakespeare at university, so there's not much you can do with a Shakespeare degree, but it did help with my love of words in general. I spent most of my working life before becoming a content designer at the Scottish Parliament. I had many different jobs there.

I started doing school visits where classes would come in, and I would tell them about Parliament. I did some internal comms, worked in legislation for a while, and then spent the biggest chunk of time working for parliamentary committees. The thing that ran through all those jobs, although I didn't realize it at the time, was that I loved explaining things to people. I loved making concepts of government and legislation understandable, and I liked using that to get people involved. Because it's their Parliament; they want to be able to get involved and understand what it's doing.

But if we use really difficult language and don’t explain things clearly, people don't feel connected. They feel like it’s something separate and elite—not something that relates to them. I worked in all these different roles for quite a while before I even knew content design was a thing. Then, I started working on a project for the Parliament's website, and that’s how I got into content design by name.

From there, I moved on to be a consultant. I go into different companies and talk to them about content design, and it was during one of these projects that I became aware of trauma-informed principles and practice. At that time, there was pretty much nothing on how that related to words. We would talk about trauma-informed research or service design, but not how you actually write words that are trauma-informed.

That’s where my interest in all of this kind of started. Over the last few years, I have been working to try and get resources, to learn more. As I've been doing that, other people have been doing it too, so that conversation is now happening. It’s maybe not as easy to find as it is for other areas, but it’s definitely happening now.

Maria Bryan:
There are a few things you said that sparked some things in me. I started my career in health education and health literacy, and this idea of when we create things—content and words—that feel elite, it really can be harmful to people who really need to know this information, whether it's about their government or their own health.

We so easily do that for some of the most important information. I know that feeling of this puzzle—this is like super high literacy, but I’m going to bring it down. When I was in the Peace Corps, I served in Ghana, and I actually—you made me think of this when you studied Shakespeare—but I used a lot of drama to help people understand their health and to promote healthy life practices.

Rachel Edwards:
Yeah, but it's so important for something like health information too. One of the services I worked on had a fast-track option for people who were terminally ill. We had people applying, and then we’d look, and it turned out they weren’t terminally ill. I think it was because they all used the word "acute" when they told us what was wrong with them. They thought "acute" meant "terminal." That’s how they understood that word.

You can imagine—it was difficult from a service point of view because we had all these applications coming in that didn’t need to be prioritized. But can you imagine actually living, thinking you had a terminal condition because of that word?

Maria Bryan:
Wow. So your book Designed With Care: Creating Trauma-Informed Content, you bring together so many different voices. Every chapter is written by different folks—you've written a few chapters, and you have designers, researchers, educators, storytellers. It's such a wonderful book. I can't wait to dig in.

Just so you know, I've added it immediately to the suggested readings in my program as soon as it came out. What inspired you to bring this diverse group of content designers together to create this work?

Rachel Edwards:
Once I started working on trauma-informed content design, I was learning so much as I went through projects, and I thought, you know, there aren't any resources—I should write a book. So, I started writing a book. I had it all mapped out, I had a plan, and I had a schedule. And then, as always happens, life got in the way.

My daughter was actually diagnosed with cancer last January. She was 13 at the time. That does not fit into my book-writing timetable. It became clear I was not going to get this book written by myself, but it also became clear that this book would be better if I didn’t write it by myself.

All these conversations were starting to happen, and there were so many different angles. So we cover things like vicarious trauma, crisis communications, and storytelling. All of that comes into it, so it was better to bring together this dream team.

And in the meantime, I had been going through this experience that really showed me all these things I’d been talking about in theory, talking about as they apply to other people—I was actually living them. I could see now why we need this, why it's so important.

When we talk about what stress or trauma and anxiety do to us mentally and physically... I've lived it now. If we just stop for a minute and talk about what they do when we're trying to approach content. So we know that those emotions—they all produce stress hormones. They produce cortisol and adrenaline when you're having a stress, anxiety, or trauma reaction.

Those hormones impede your cognitive function. They set you up for that fight-or-flight mode, so they divert energy away from your brain to other parts of your body. It means that no matter how smart you are normally, or how easily you can do something normally, you are going to find it harder to read, to take in information, and to make decisions.

I’ve been saying this for years, and then last year, when my daughter was just diagnosed and we were in the hospital, I was trying to get pajamas for her because she needed pajamas that buttoned down the front. I put it into Google, and I couldn’t actually understand the search results. I could see them on my phone, but I couldn’t take them in, and I couldn’t process them.

And I thought, This is what it's like. This is what we're talking about. It’s harder to get information, but we need information. When we're going through these difficult times and these difficult situations, we need to be able to make choices and know things and do things. So how do we fit those two together? How do we design content that helps somebody in this moment?

That was the kind of idea behind why we needed the book. And then the dream team just came together. It was kind of magic. These people said they would give their time and share their knowledge, and it's just been one of the most positive experiences ever. Because not only did everybody get involved and we produced this book in a really short period of time, but a lot of them have made their chapters available for free, shared their resources, or are doing talks about this.

It’s very much with the intent that we get more people thinking about this and the effect that trauma and anxiety have on writing and on content.

Maria Bryan:
What a powerful, poignant example of what happens internally when we've experienced extreme stress and trauma. It's so powerful to be doing something for so long and then to experience it and have that lens just kind of change everything. But I'm also so grateful that you honored that and acknowledged that and brought on this—what you call—dream team.

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Maria Bryan:
Many chapters are very, very practical—from designing questions to crisis communications. What are some of the biggest takeaways from the book that we can expect?

Rachel Edwards:
I think the biggest thing, and you'll find it in multiple chapters, is this idea that there’s no checklist for trauma. You can't say, "Here are the rules for creating trauma-informed content. Do these things, and you're done," because every situation is different. Every person is different.

You might find some commonalities between situations and content types, but it's never going to be exactly the same. And it's important that you test your ideas and your content with the situations or with the people that you're creating it for.

I say it that way because sometimes it's not appropriate to test with people who’ve experienced a specific trauma. It might be too risky or too difficult. In those cases, there are other things you can do—you can speak to proxy users or to people who are kind of experts in that area and do what you can that way. There is a chapter in the book on that, so I won’t go into it.

What we try and give you are things to think about—experiences that we've had and questions that you can ask yourself as you're approaching this work. But at the end of the book, there’s no annex that says, "Here’s your checklist, and once you've done these things, your content is trauma-informed." It's a way of thinking and a way of working rather than a set of rules.

Another thing that is really important is the idea that trauma is all around. The first chapter sets out what exactly trauma is, what we are talking about here. There’s this really powerful statistic in it that estimates over 70% of the world has experienced a traumatic event.

Now, the reason you’ve heard me already talking—we’ve been going for about 10 minutes, and I keep saying "stress, anxiety, and trauma" and not just trauma—there’s a reason I do that.

Maria Bryan:
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Edwards:
And...

Maria Bryan:
I’ve noticed. I think it's important.

Rachel Edwards:
There’s a reason I do that. One is that they all produce similar physical effects, and they have a similar impact on the brain with these stress hormones. But the other thing is that we don't tend to, in my experience, we don’t tend to associate ourselves with trauma.

When you speak to people about their own experiences, they don’t say, "That was trauma." We tend to use it flippantly. So, you know, "I found a spider, it was traumatic," but we don’t tend to apply it to ourselves. We seem to be much more comfortable talking about stress, and I think anxiety is becoming more accepted too. But trauma... we think of it—massive generalization here—as something soldiers experience, PTSD, people who’ve been in war zones. They are allowed to have trauma; the rest of us are not.

That’s a really common perception that I come across. So I talk about all three—stress, anxiety, and trauma—because I think people find it easier to engage with stress and anxiety. But trauma is really everywhere, and you don’t know where it is.

A lot of our thinking about trauma and trauma-informed content is around re-traumatization and avoiding re-traumatization. We’re trying to create content that keeps somebody safe and doesn’t re-traumatize them in any way, but those triggers or activators that can lead to re-traumatization... they're so personal.

In my chapter, I talk about the one associated with my daughter’s cancer treatment, and it’s not what anybody would ever guess. For some reason, driving past the train station in the center of Edinburgh—a couple of days before she was diagnosed, we took a train trip—and for some reason, that is a difficult thing for me.

I would drive past this train station every day on the way to the hospital to see her, and every time, I would get that reaction, that sort of trauma response. You can’t write a content warning for that. You can’t plan for that because that's my personal one.

But there are things we can do to keep people safe, to give them choice, and to empower them. And that’s what we are aiming for with our content. So I think those are kind of the main takeaways.

Rachel Edwards:
And I guess the last one is around doing your research because we can make so many assumptions until you actually speak to people who have been affected or know more about that particular circumstance or situation. You just don’t know.

I give an example in one of the chapters, which is around asking questions. I like to give this one when I’m talking about this because it just shows how wrong you can get it.

This was a project I was working on that was for people who had been abused in care as children. It was a really long, detailed form that we asked them to complete. And so we kind of were thinking about how we would design this form, and we thought, well, you know, it’s a hard form. Let’s start them off right. We’ll set them up with some easy questions.

When I’m doing this in a group, I always ask them, What are the easiest questions that you can ask somebody on a form?

So I’ll ask you, Maria—what is the easiest question you can ask someone?

Maria Bryan:
What is your name?

Rachel Edwards:
Perfect. Another easy question that you can ask somebody on a form?

Maria Bryan:
Yeah, to me, it’s like the most basic information—like your name and address and maybe something that’s more factual than personal.

Rachel Edwards:
We went even more basic than that. We went with name and date of birth. So, we'll start them off with that—nice and easy. And then we tested it with this group, and we learned that actually, for people who had been in care, these were really difficult questions.

A lot of them had their names changed. A lot of them had been called different things in the institutions they were in. And a lot of them didn’t know their birth date because those records had been kept from them or even destroyed.

Maria Bryan:
Wow.

Rachel Edwards:
Now, most services that I go into and work with, those questions would be easy. But they were not easy for this particular group.

So the chapter basically challenges you to not think of questions as "easy questions" and "hard questions," because you just don’t know. But we wouldn’t have known that without doing research.

So I think that is the final takeaway that runs through the whole book—to know the people that you’re working with and not to assume things about them.

Maria Bryan:
People want a checklist. I find this more and more. I work specifically in the nonprofit space where folks really don’t want to do harm. They’re in the nonprofit space to make the world a better place, and they’re just begging for a checklist.

And I think this is so, so important. When people say, "Well, what should I do in this situation or that situation?" I’ve always felt that being trauma-informed is one part process and one part intuition. And intuition is something that you kind of have to build. It’s like a muscle that you have to exercise, and you will get it wrong.

But after a while, if you kind of have your compass—and the compass for me is safety and agency, giving back that safety and agency that was taken when someone’s experiencing trauma—then you kind of take that into every situation and say, How can we provide safety and agency?

But you’re so right. That’s so interesting, with, you know, "We are going to design this in a way that makes it really simple for folks to fill out this form," and then it turns out that they happen to be very triggering questions. And it just goes to show that one, we have to have grace for ourselves on this journey, and two, we just really, really have to ask those big questions.

We have to listen and not just check things off and say, Hey, we did what we were supposed to do and move on. It just takes a slowness, I feel, to be tuned to things like that, so I so appreciate that lens that you bring to trauma-informed care. Thank you for that.

And with that, you talked a little bit about content warnings. And I love this—I feel like this is going to stick with me. There’s not going to be a big billboard in front of that train station saying, Content warning if your child is getting chemo. You know? It’s like, we can’t—we don’t know people’s triggers.

But I so often—because I work in storytelling—folks get really overwhelmed about this idea of content warnings, and you’ve written a whole chapter on this. I think they can actually be a little bit more simple than people think. I’m curious to know what you think. What are your thoughts on an effective content warning? We already know there’s nuance; we’re not guaranteed that we’re going to know what might upset people or trigger something. But yeah, tell me your thoughts.

Rachel Edwards:
I think content warnings—we are trying to do a lot of things with them, and we are maybe confusing what they're actually good at and what we think we're doing with them. So I think that they are less good at helping with triggers and more good at providing just safety and choice to somebody if we think of them that way.

Maria Bryan:
I...

Rachel Edwards:
There are some studies that have been done on content warnings—whether they’re effective. They show that pretty consistently, if somebody's shown a content warning, they have elevated stress throughout that whole piece of content than if they come across that content without a warning.

So if we’re giving them to try and reduce somebody's stress, it’s not working. And as you've said, if we’re trying to avoid specific triggers, it's not working. So what are we doing with them?

Now, how you write one is an important thing. I’ve got some bad examples in the book, but one of them is something like, This show contains scenes that may upset some viewers.

But what do you do with that? If you hear that—and there are a lot of things I don’t want to watch—I’m just going to be on edge the whole time going, What is going to happen and when?

So you can understand that kind of elevated reaction. I had a similar one when I was watching the opening ceremony for the Olympics. It was, I think, a four-hour broadcast. And they started by saying, Just to let you know, there will be flashing lights in this.

What choice are you giving somebody with that if they are photosensitive? The only choice is that they have to turn it off and miss the whole four-hour broadcast.

If we said something like, There will be flashing lights. These happen at roughly 45 minutes and 90 minutes into the program. They’ll last for roughly 30 seconds. We’ll remind you two minutes before it happens, then you’re giving somebody choice and safety. They can turn it off now, turn it off later—you’re letting them come back in as well. You’re not making them exclude themselves from the whole piece of content.

So I think there are ways that we can do it, but I think, too, like those generic content warnings—for me, I will not do anything that’s got a torture scene in it. I just can’t. So when something says that, that’s great for me. I just turn off. I’m done. I don’t want to go there.

But that’s not the same as avoiding re-traumatization. And you’re right, you can’t put a billboard in front of the train station. And some things are going to be upsetting and difficult for people.

What I think we’ve fallen into the habit of doing is using a content warning as a disclaimer. Saying, This might upset you—over to you. Now you’ve got to deal with that.

What we could do is try and think about those trauma-informed principles and think about what choice we can give people. How can we empower them? How can we give them safety? Can we build trust by telling them, This is going to come up, but I will warn you when it's coming up and tell you what to do.

I think if we think of them more in that way, then we’ve got something more productive and more useful.

When I talk about trauma, I always give a content warning at the start, and I’ll say something like, Just to let you know, I will be talking about my experiences caring for my daughter. I will be talking about work I did for this scheme that was for people who were abused in care. I don’t go into details about personal experiences, but I do mention the topics. If you want, I can give you a little signal when I’m about to mention that.

Something like that. If I just went in and said, I’m going to talk about stuff that’s difficult today, that’s not a content warning.

Just to give you a final example, that scheme that I was working on with a really long application form—we knew, because we’d done this testing, that some people told us they were bracing themselves. They were waiting for the difficult questions. As they went through this form, you could see them actually tensing.

So we added a line to the bottom of each page of the form, and it told them what was going to be on the next page. This was a physical printed-out form. So before they turned that page, they knew what was coming.

That meant they could stop and decide if they were ready. That gave them choice, and it gave them safety. And we reminded them too, where their support options were and what they could do if they needed any help.

If we took away those warnings, they might feel that stress and anxiety throughout the whole application—like they told us, they’re bracing themselves. But what wouldn’t have worked well is if we’d put a line at the top of the application form that just said, This form asks questions about your abuse, because there’s no indication of when that content comes, what the support options are, and what choices somebody has.

So we need to think again—no checklist. We need to think about these things in the situation and what we can offer.

I recorded a podcast with someone a few weeks ago, and the content warning at the start said the topics that we were going to talk about and said, These appear throughout the podcast. If you want more information before you listen, get in touch.

That’s obviously a more labor-intensive process, but that is helping somebody. That is actually providing these principles that we’re talking about in action.

Maria Bryan:
What I love about what you’re sharing is that it makes you think about one person who might be listening to your podcast, reading the story, or completing this form—not just having something there to kind of protect yourself or to protect your organization, but if there’s one person who might have a negative internal response to this, what kind of information would empower them?

And it doesn’t mean it’s going to be very difficult. It still can be fairly simple. I just love that—that changes a lot for me as a trainer. This having a signal of when you’re going to be talking about something…

Interestingly, I often show promotional videos from pediatric cancer hospitals, and I always try to give as much notice and space that this is going to happen and let people know.

But I love this idea of, like, I’m not just going to tell you in the beginning. I already feel like I can change how I do content warnings just from that kind of insight. So thank you. Thank you, Rachel.

Rachel Edwards:
Not at all. I think—because again, this is one where we want a checklist, right? We want to know we’re doing it right. But I think the advice I give—maybe it's too simple, but it works for me—is, What would you say to your friend?

You would say to them something like, I’m going to talk about something a little bit hard. If you’re not in the space for it right now, let me know. We can stop talking about it at any point. That’s the kind of conversation you want to have, and that’s, I think, how you create a meaningful content warning.

Maria Bryan:
What does a trauma-informed content design feature look like to you?

Rachel Edwards:
Ooh, love that question. We need to be thinking about it everywhere—not thinking of trauma as an edge case, but thinking about the situations that have that real cognitive impact on people at a time when they’re likely to need information.

One of the chapters in the book is from somebody who works creating content for the UK government. She starts her chapter by saying, People come to government usually in times of stress. You’re talking about things like benefits, registering a death... It’s not generally a happy thing to go to government pages.

Government pages—you think, I don’t know how many, hundreds of thousands of hits a day. So it’s everywhere, and we really need to be thinking about trauma-informed content as an accessibility issue and an ethical issue.

One of the things I found really interesting when I started doing this is that I’d worked for an Inequalities and Human Rights Committee during my time in Parliament. We talked about a human rights-based approach and those principles of upholding somebody’s human rights and letting them participate and engage in things that impact them and affect them.

For children too—children have additional rights around this under the UNCRC. They have actual rights to information about things that affect them in a format that they can understand.

I would like to see these principles—these ideas of getting information to people that they can use, that they can act on, that empowers them, that is safe, that doesn’t harm them, that they can trust—because you don’t have time to be filtering through lots of information that’s maybe outdated or not the right information when you’re going through something really difficult.

I would like to see that growing and that we are all thinking about these principles in all of our work. We should have them at the heart of everything we do.

When I first started talking about this, somebody said to me, Well, this is only applicable to certain situations—things like a death or abuse or assault. And I agreed with them. And then I thought, Well actually, no—you’re wrong.

Because it’s that same idea of the train station. Somebody might be going to a train station because they’re taking a holiday, but they might be going to a train station because they are going to visit someone who’s dying, or they’re leaving a violent relationship.

They might just find train stations difficult for the reasons I mentioned before. You don’t know why somebody is coming to that content, and you can’t just think of it as, It’s only for these situations. Because it’s not just the situation—it’s the person behind the situation that we’re thinking about.

I think it’s grown in profile—this idea of trauma-informed content. It’s grown in the last five years a lot. I’m hoping it grows even more in the next five years because the principles behind trauma-informed practice fit so neatly with what we’re trying to do. And if we can all take those into the heart of our work, then I think we will be in a much better place with better information.

Maria Bryan:
Rachel, I so appreciate what you are doing and how accessible it feels. How can folks get their hands on this book and connect with you and learn more about your work and content design?

Rachel Edwards:
Oh, well, I point everyone to our website to start with, which is designedwithcare.org, and that has got all kinds of good stuff on it. It's got the contact details for all the contributors, and when we say that we are happy to chat, we really are happy to chat. We'd love to hear from you if you've got questions.

It’s also got some of the free chapters that people have made available. And my favorite bit of this website is all the bibliographies—all the references, everything we talk about, they're all there and they're all linked. So all you have to do is click, and it will go straight to the journal article, straight to the news article—whatever we're talking about.

This is like a little bit of magic that I love so much. The book is only available on Amazon. It's available as a paperback and as an ebook. I do feel like I have to say it's only available on Amazon because this was a self-funded project, so there was an additional cost to putting it on other platforms.

What we wanted to prioritize was making it affordable around the world, and Amazon is the best for doing that. So I appreciate that some people might have some issues with Amazon. If anybody is really struggling and the free content isn't cutting it, please get in touch with me, and we will find a way because the most important thing is to get this book out so that people can start learning about it and doing it.

But please, please do get in touch. Drop me a line. I'm always on LinkedIn too—LinkedIn is a great place to find me and quite a few of the other contributors as well.

Maria Bryan:
Wonderful. Thanks again, Rachel, for your wisdom and for your work and for this—for this book.

Rachel Edwards:
Well, thank you so much for having me. I’ve loved it.